Bear in mind, that arm consisted of two SHARP bones, cutting at nerves and muscle (1 of bone had been blown out of the arm when the bullet shattered it, leaving three jagged holes in the flesh, out of which bulged torn muscle, and two wedge shaped bones facing each other like dueling swords). This was the prosecution and conviction of (Elizabeth) Diane Downs who has now been incarcerated for too many years in one of Californias (overcrowded) State prisons. Right after her first surgery, The Detectives were adamant that they HAD to have Diane right then to recreate the incident- unless of course, you have something to hide. Melvin Belli How things could have been different. Sheriffs Deputy Roy Pond admitted in court that he had already concluded that Diane was guilty and stopped following leads on the orders of his sergeantthree weeks after the shooting. It always feels like punishment at all costs. You have a photo of Diane before the parole board. A sick kid who had a stroke and traumatized being pressured for weeks to remember her mother killing her? Diane followed the detectives to their car. In 1999, a Board Certified Psychiatrist practicing in Oakland, California wrote a letter to the parole board on behalf of Diane Downs to explain how things had changed since 1984 when she was diagnosed with a severe personality disorder. He did not consider her a risk factor at all and believed she would do well if released into society, because she had no prior history of violence and never had a problem with violence or bad behavior while incarcerated. Years later, seven witnesses signed affidavits telling of a man named Jim Haynes continuing confessionthat he wasthe shooter, and his appearance boresimilarities to the sketch. For more on this case, watch the "Fatal Attraction" episode of Investigation Discovery's Deadly Women on ID GO now! On the single count of murder, the jurors needed a unanimous decision. Not right at all. Their haste to go to trial created this mess and lingering doubts. Will Cheryl ever be let out of her grave? The fact that the accused in this case was atypical, makes her the perfect target. The gun is Def a big issue, the style of gun, whether it belonged to him or her, she Def had access to itthe child drew a picture of it, having large similarity to that gunbut it did always baffle me how she could find such a great hide for it in such a short period of time. So should I put an addendum saying that Diane contradicted herself or was not satisfied with the sketch? Diane had consulted a psychologist after the tragedy and after months of consultation, she was never diagnosed as a sociopath. It seems that a lot of what was written down never came up during testimony and some nurses even strayed from the original content. Not exclusively a USA trait, this happens also in many countries, but in a technologically advanced superpower like USA this attitude is more shocking, and maybe also more worldwide spread. And Steven would hunt her down anyway and charm his way back into her life. Evidence continued to pile up against Diane Downs. But if you compare them, and if stranger there was, there are similarities but it is not dead on. In 1991, David Brewer, a juror who deliberated Dianes fate in her 1984 trial, came forward to say he and another juror had decided to acquit Downs by the close of the States presentation. Even if the nurses notes indicated countless times that the children asked for their mother and enjoyed her visits, they cut them off from the only family they knew and loved; supposedly for their own protection. If there is one thing Diane knew about her lover, is that he was fickle and did not like trouble of any kind. Email Address: r CNKF @amphi.com +1 email. She was the prosecutions only hope. The tape is real and probably not admissible, but it seems to indicate that her testimony was coerced. See more Show your support Send Flowers Send flowers or a gift to a service or family's home. No gun, no blood or gun residue on her and if she shot them, these elements should have been there. A. But you would know that if you had read the blog or info about the case. It isnt there all the time. In fact, if someone was Hungry like the Wolf in this courtroom, it was a certain crime author who could already smell and taste the fortune coming her way after the publication of this juicy story. I know that most people think she is guilty. Blood spatter is not an exact science, and is interpreted differently by experts. You are right. This article is about due process and the legal right to a fair trial for everyone. Just goes to show how difficult it is sometimes to find the truth. For some people, the best send-off is one that they would have loved to attendthemselves: a big party. The goal is always to keep family ties intact. During the process of the termination (which can take the whole 2 years in question, with appeals) the court is mandated to find family to take the children. Thank you Lise. Nuts maybe, but not threatening. Teams of people and detectives combed the area for months looking for the gun but it was nowhere to be found. Diane changed her story about the stranger on the road. According to Oregon law, this would have to be supported by a psychiatrists report or a Wardens letter and Diane provided both. And I care about the lack of evidence. I can only imagine to absolute horror of Leno and Rosemary LaBianca during their horrific murders. Like in their movies. I hope they have. Exactly Libby why did they say during the trial that he saw his mom? Open ended sentences like this are meant to provide a means of control and public safety when considering dangerous offenders who may pose a continued risk to the public. In the end, it is scary how media becomes some kind of Roman circus where people is thrown in order to become a source of business. This is what I try to do when I research a case that was deemed to be a slam dunk. Instead, there is blood splatter on the ceiling of the car. I enjoyed your take, and agree their are several reasons with this, and lets be honestevery other case ever prosecuted, to take pause and question but Diane continues to lie, make up brand new stories about people after her, and has made no moves to better herself in any way shape or form while shes been in prison, by her own admission. Get Notified when Robert Arthur Knickerbocker's info changes. Send a note, share a story or upload a photo. But in their defense, they were told at trial what gun was used by Diane to shoot the kids and it must have been very difficult to overcome the emotions brought on by the words of little Christie even if it was pretty obvious during her testimony that she was confused and unreliable. On the night of May 19, 1983, Downs was driving with her three children. She felt fulfilled when she was pregnant because she believedit was the road to unconditional love. Rule sued the Seattle Weekly after they published the article titled , Ann Rule promotes her books as true crime stories so to this day, viewers believe that the book and the movie titled, This reminds me of what a jail counselor named Rachel Roth said at the trial of Debra Milke , They already had made up their mind that Diane was the perpetrator so they laughed off the idea of the , When I hear some people say that they would have liked to smack that smirk off Dianes face when she interacted with the cops or the media, I say. He actually was the one who suggested they become intimate after many friendly, platonic conversations. Nothing in this blog claims Diane is innocent. Mr. Work: Rising Tide LP - General Partner, Rising Tide LTD Partnership - Chief Executive Officer, knickerbocker investments - owner +1 more. Im sure nothing I write will change that. Its tiresome. After all, she was conditioned this way. That hurt our family deeply. I try to bring out the details that were ignored because Down was so unpopular: this blog is clearly one sided. SPRINGFIELD, OR Before Charles Stuart in 1989, and before Susan Smith in 1994, Diane Downs made national headlines by claiming that an unknown assailant had violently attacked her and her family, causing outrage and making national headlines. Thanks Kit, It is a bit of a mystery to me that not more people see that if we removed the high profile name and the accompanying media storm, the case was no slam dunk. a clinical lab to Dianes not being herself the day the Detectives pressured Diane to accompany them, the fact is Diane was clearly suffering the residual effects of that chemical poison in her system. This was all logged in Christies hospital reports and is found in the Appendix of the petition filed in Federal Court in 1996 in the section Hospital Reports.. They felt safe there. 6. Strangely enough, a woman who was seen for 8 months by a psychologist and declared to be in shock and suffering from a mood disorder, would now be assessed by the State hired psychiatrist to confirm the label Hugi conveniently made up during trial. So they did everything in their power to slant the media and the public in their favor. Brewer changed his mind. When you hear her in interviews she sounds more concerned with herself than her kids. He separated from his wife and was going to follow Diane who, by now, had decided to move and work in Oregon to be closer to her parents. To listen to Christies taped conversation, click below. Local police alerted the public to be on the lookout for a dangerous man with a gun as the toll of the attack on Downs and her children became clear: seven-year-old Cheryl was dead; three-year-old Danny was permanently paralyzed from the waist down; and eight-year-old Christie was clinging to life, having suffered a stroke because her blood pressure was so low. I like your approach. but I think there are some extreme cases that knock women in a bad psychotic way that can be life threatening. The hell with doubts, ballistics and pesky details about the shooting, we cannot disagree becausethere is hunting and fishing to do and friendships to uphold. http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v09/n364/a03.html // Prison-happy U.S. must reconsider use of mercy; Carol S. Steiker, professor at Harvard Law School, Sep. 10, 2008 , http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20080910_Prison-happy_U_S__must_reconsider_use_of_mercy.html // US Prison Population Soars to 2.3Mln People at Annual Cost of $7Bln The US prison population has soared to 2.3 million people costing the government more than $7 billion per year. But the Parole Board refused to hear her. The person who shot the kids was leaning inside the car because they were shot at close range. What matters to me is that her rights were trampled during her trial. While not evidence of guilt or innocence, it is certainly worth noting as part of the overall wrongs perpetrated during this fiasco of a trial and subsequent appeals. Anything less is a conflict of interest. He was very irresponsible and probably could not handle them financially and emotionally. Downs herself had been shot in the forearm during what she claimed was a struggle with the mysterious stranger. To the authorities, it was a ridiculous notion that they would not entertain so they did not follow on numerous leads coming from people who had seen someone corresponding to that description. It is beyond belief that the State of Oregon allowed the prosecutor to adopt those children. Downs is a worthless as the day is long.. Maybe you should read the blog before commenting. Robert Knickerbocker is 66 years old today because Robert's birthday is on 05/15/1956. She is nowhere near being paroled and if she admitted guilt, I am not even convinced they would release her. Looking for Robert Knickerbocker? It became judicial kidnapping to obtain a coerced confession: inflammatory He was buried at burial place, Arizona. The blogger continues, I am not one sided. Almost immediately, police suspected that something was amiss. That was the extent of her investigation of Dianes side. Christie became the star witness against her mother and who could resist such a touching testimony? But Ann Rules utterly biased account is an insult to investigative journalism and there seems to be very reasonable doubt here. Except after the idea was subsequently planted in his head only to be alluded to in court, in spite of an agreement to never mention the subject. And Im really not on the fence the little girl was coachedI believe the ex husband , his freinds, and her lovers were invalid either way. I research cases that in my opinion, were poorly tried. In a perfect world this would always be the case. She could not have been shot twice in the back while sitting up and have the bullet pierce her body to end up under the floorboard of the passenger side. Sometimes it takes until late in life for connections to be made again. Her daughter told the media she watched Small Sacrifices several times. It probably was not salacious enough for her readers that she polled online to establish if there was enough interest in the story to fill her pockets with a definite blockbuster. Contemporary family finding principles argue that a child is best nurtured by parents, then immediate family members, extended family members, spiritual family (Godparents), close friends, etc. He strung her along, played with both womens emotions, and after saying he would join her in Oregon, reneged and stayed with his wife. Its more boring to tell the truth and the readers might not have flocked to read a fair story without no real heroes and villains. that you told Diane to tell steve that she was Knicks Shes where she belongs. She was no mother of the year and in the car when the kids got shot. I am publishing your comment because once in a while, I need to post the pitiful representation of true crime readers who made Anne Rule a rich author. It was omnipresent in the courtroom as well as the Duran Duran song, The judge instructed them to continue on to force a verdict. Due process always matters. . No way. Instead of blaming societal problems and working at finding solutions, prison always seem to be their option. Alana Renee Cole, 45, remains at large; authorities say she should be considered dangerous. Have you actually read the transcript of the trial?? Maybe that her mom was obviously not well after spending her life in prison so it would have been a good idea to meet the Downss family quietly and get the jest of it. You cannot skip due process because of mob mentality. In the 21st century, it's not just urns and gravestones anymore. They dont need to be adopted and have their entire identity changed. In the moment of who shot youmy momhave a hard time believing that could be coached. I also found it interesting that when he had visited Diane in prison, he had remarked a strange air about her; which did not mean guilt. The State produced a witness (Ms. Patterson) to testify that Diane Downs entered the hospital bathroom, left the door open, and ran water in the sink (Appendix 87, page 476). Ruger #14-76187; described as the gun used by Diane and belonging to Steve Downs, was not the murder weapon. Child Protective Services takes confidentiality to the extreme (warranted in most cases). I removed the dumb and crass part of your comment. If Oregonians were not all convinced at first, the media and the crown made sure they would be. It goes on and on. On May 30, 1983, the McKenzie-Willamette Hospital Chaplain told Dianes father to hire an attorney because the State was going to take his grandchildren away. Whenever your shoot a gun that many times and that close to the victims, theres going to be blood and powder residues. As usual, Diane had resorted to the soothing comfort of a pregnancy to pretend life would get better; she would create a nest around her, come hell or high water. Children imitate their parents every move. If Hugi got attached to the children, why did he wait 2 years when little Christie was starting to say she had no clue who shot them? Diane was pregnant during the trial so if found not guilty, how would she have regained the love of her life? The children were in the hospital, it isnt like they could have taken them home. It is a research done on the case according to many sources. I think it would give the blog more integrity and transparency. Because she had driven that area for years for her work. And other inmates were released with worst backgrounds. Yes, like many Americans, I think that the US system is barbaric. Guilty or not, the case was handled with prejudice and many errors occurred. The weird behavior (laughing and joking in the shooting reenactment), bullets found at her home and the constant changing of her story only is icing on her guilty cake. Top 3 Results for Robert Knickerbocker in AZ 1 The best result we found for your search is Robert Knickerbocker age 60s in Phoenix, AZ in the Garfield neighborhood. This is a scenario pretty hard to believe, but as they say, reality can sometimes be stranger than fiction. They said she was going slow but the time at which she arrived seems to indicate otherwise. She goes on to say that she has deep regret and mourns the loss and death of her children. That didnt seem right so we wrote a letter to Mr Hugi with a request for visitation rights. Meaning a trial where lying or failing to disclose exculpatory evidence by prosecutors is not happening. Lived In Grand Rapids MI, Tempe AZ. Also Im curious as to how you feel her repeated escape attempts should affect her deserving to be on parole. She should have had the lawyer of her choice and if they wanted to charge her with the crimes, they should have stuck with what evidence and circumstances they had. Two wrongs do not make a right but illustrates that she should have never been coerced before, during or after the trial. The details about the gun missing, the daughters testimony and the fact that she had no blood or gun residues are facts. Mr. Jagger failed to challenge that competency. Page 40 of Case History. If the media was anything at the time it was favorable towards her. The ballistics, gun, speed at which she drove the car, her demeanor, etc. You hit the nail on the head by stating that in the US especially, they seem to shun complex ethical problems preferring to deal with absolute evil in order to exert absolute power to crush it. It has become entertainment and there can only be good, bad and evil. How asinine. During Dianes examination at trial, Fred Hugi said in front of the jury, in the form of a question, that she had been diagnosed as a , Anne Rule made a big deal of a brass unicorn engraved with the childrens names that Diane had purchased. They should have had ongoing contact and been placed with family as soon as they were out of the hospital and they never should have been interviewed without their own attorney (Guardian ad Litem) present. Robert V Knickerbocker, 65 Resides in Saint Augustine, FL Lived In Henderson NV, Ooltewah TN, Turlock CA, Tucson AZ Related To Audrey Knickerbocker, Bryce Knickerbocker, Sean Knickerbocker, Barbara Knickerbocker, Ian Knickerbocker Also known as Robert V Knickerbocke, Robert V E Knickerbock, Bob Knickerbo Includes Address (7) Phone (4) Email (4) They came up with an explanation as to why this was the wrong gun but the jig was up. Not an easy situation for him as I would imagine. View theaffidavits. That is the reason effective trial counsel challenges the competency of a nine-year-old child to testify in a court of law. This does not make her innocent. They were in their care during the time Diane worked when she moved to Oregon. Take your smugness elsewhere, at long last. The cops admitted that they never investigated the tips about a bushy haired stranger. The fact that they used her daughter and lied about the gun they could never find makes it a wrongful conviction. Fred Hugi looks nothing like Jim Jagger. How could they expect a normal mother/daughter reunion between a beaten inmate whose mental health had degraded and a daughter trapped in this insanity? 1st, you came back from a trip? This is a conflict of interest. And she clearly remembered the April 1983, rape that Mr. Downs would later refer to as love making. Im all for justice, reviewing facts and overturning corrupt decisions. She was interrogated without a representative from the defense and was not taped for the most part. danny also said a cartoon character shot themalso he was SHOT IN THE BACK how could he see the shooter????????? Authorities confirm former fugitive, Leticia Smith was extradited from Mexico to California. They're not a map to follow, but simply a description of what people commonly feel. You say she made more of a fuss about her arm than about the injuries her children sustained. Resides in Phoenix, AZ. Reddit is a social news website where the registered users submit content, in the form of either a link or a text post. It probably makes you feel so good. Go reading US: The American Gulag, 26 Mar 2009 Exploding prison populations in the US serve a basic need of capitalism. You have that part absolutely right, so why was this protocol ignored? They were in a difficult situation becausewithout evidence, they could notcharge her for the crime. The men in her life were in no shape or form called on their irresponsible or wild behavior. Thanks for the link. She even became a surrogate mother to make money and provide two parents the opportunity to have a child. The Diane Downs case a case where a woman was convicted of shooting her three children, killing one of them, along a roadway in Springfield, Oregon became the subject of ABCs 20/20 in the episode entitled My Mothers Sin. Stephen Daniel (known as Danny), 3, Cheryl Lynn, 7, and Christie Anne, 8, were all shot multiple times in the May 19, 1983 attack. This was very stressful. Diane asked for proof that her ex husband was behind the shooting. There is absolutely no evidence that Hungry like the Wolf was playing when Christie got shot but it is another detail they added to bring a dramatic element to this trial. I cant believe anyone even believes or even follows you. Lived In Phoenix AZ, Salt Lake City UT, Spring TX . She has come a long way. It would be about November 20th that you would have gone back with Charlene, what, the next day? During closing arguments, Fred Hugi said that the murder weapon used by Diane was a Ruger, and the state had the model number and the bill of sale. We dont know. Interesting that the article has one of the same elements that Diane perpetrated when she drove to the hospital the night of the murders she made more of a fuss about her arm injury than she did about one of her kids dying and two of them being gravely and permanently wounded. No. On her way to the hospital,she was followed by someone who said she was going slow, but Diane said she was driving fairly fast. She wrote to the governor several times after being dismissed coldly by Hugi and the system. Three weeks after the crime, Judge Foote from family courts, removed Danny and Christie from the care of Diane Downs and her family. This happened in 1983, not 1893. They did not want reunification to keep their verdict intact. 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