I have built Russ' version, which I believe was posted yesterday, and I love it. Ephemera, empherma and Ephemerella.. Photos, paintings, written stories and talents. I would highly recommend the 8013 for your first Dickerson rod. Information About Makers and Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of Bamboo Fly Rods. I have limited the list as practical to tapers which are not obviously taken from Hexrod.net, in RodDNA, or in contemporary books such as Howells, Gould or Mauer. Fast Dickerson 7613 - 7'6" 2pc Casting range allows for some delicacy up close and personal, to the times that you want to reach out and touch someone a bit further away. This board is for discussing the repair and restoration of bamboo fly rods, makers discussion and construction techniques relating to same. The part of the ferrule that fits over the bamboo on the tip section (male ferrule) had the same exact inside diameter of .221" INITIALLY! Contact us to learn more about how we can help! However if we can define specific regions (tip, middle, butt) and understand the effect of removing or adding material in these areas. 5 0.0825 Measure over original varnish. My first few 8013's have 13/64 ferrules and one of them broke off INSIDE of the ferrule. As this was my favorite rod, much foul language followed. Right, I've printed that off and made a brief study. Some rods might in fact be best with a line weight that falls between two designated ones eg. Very nice guy. Since it was a know Dickerson Taper and not a myth I set out to recreate how I think Lyle would of done it and it came out sweet. Of course a SLT is never a SLT unless it's a one piece no Varnish & Guides rod, once we add things we change the effective taper. I repaired the rod with by putting on a custom ferrule. .334@35 Determine the effect of adding or subtracting material as to what effect it will have on rod action, we can design rods for a specific purpose. 0.288 ever wonder why all those 10 1/2/64 Heddons broke at the female ferrule? Lyle Dickerson oft written about little powerhouse of a rod. if you were to use this type of ferrule, you might choose one that has a 13/64ths opening on the top, and a 14/64ths opening on the bottom. I like Paynes too! While I have never cast an original (I think only a few were ever made by Mr. Dickerson) I have made a 4-5. The rod I measured generally has 3/3 node spacing with the exception of two nodes falling right next to each other. To my knowledge there are at least 3 versions of the 7613 out there. (Chris Obuchowski). As to my question about the ferrules is, your rods say, e.g. Gillum Rods. (Will Price), I have noticed several folks mention the Dickerson 8014. Dickerson 8015 Guide Special, 2607 - 5. To vary the straight line you can adjust the tip dimension. (Robin Haywood). In fact I've just made a new tip for it as the original developed a kink when being cooked to set off the UHU which no amount of ironing will remove. Hmmm. I don't think anyone fishes the same. I do not rule out the possibility of owning a Lyle Dickerson rod one day but, may I ask, if you own or were having a rod made today with a Dickerson taper, If you want a Dickerson - John Pickard is your best choice. Maybe it is the version of the taper they are making, there are several out there. I did subtract the .006 when I made mine and I love it as I do every Dickerson taper that I've cast. His total production was fewer than 1,000 rods. John P. has the Original Dickerson 7612 taper, a very rare rod but John understandably will not share the taper. It was a rod I hate. Edwards Edwards #25 Quad - 7ft 4wt light tip The stepdown in the male is from a 14/64 ID where the ferrule initially goes over the bamboo and steps down to 12/64 ID for the bamboo inside of the male slide. Rod makers history, value guide and general discussion, Link to Orvis Database by Greg Reynolds, Link to EC Powell's Mechanics of fly casting. It does not do anything to the action as most of the last 3 inches is inside the ferrule anyway. Dennis looked over his rod and it, too, has two nodes right next to each other. If you want a rod that feels like a SLT then you must compensate for the ferrules and varnish and guides by adding the proper amount of bamboo at the correct points on the taper. Has anyone cast both 1949 and 1951 versions of the Dickerson 8013 as described in Howell's book? The stepped down portion of the male is 2/64's smaller than the sleeve. (Al Baldauski). Here are the tapers of the Dickerson 8014GS from the rod Jeff Fultz mic'ed and from Banjo's rod, since I had several requests both on and off list, I'll post here so anyone who wants them can save them. 30 .216 .099 The rod action will not resemble a straight line taper any longer. I've cast the original and it is one strong casting rod and deserving of the Guide Special nomenclature. Any rod with a straight taper under load will feel to a greater or lesser extent, unnecessarily heavy in the tip and too soft in the butt. A Lyle Dickerson model 8014 bamboo fly rod, 8', 2-piece, 3-tip, and built for a #6 line. This gives a quick, accurate impression as to what type of taper the rod is made from (straight, parabolic, compound, etc.) 35 0.162 166451 That's so the swell is still in the action length. An 8014, would be an 8' two piece, with a size 14 ferrule amidships. Measurements under the handle are obviously estimates. Experience the difference of a Mystic Fly Rod on your next expedition. I just wanted to make the point that there's a difference between a rod with a straight taper and one with a straight, flat stress curve. Halstead. I have a tough time roll casting over about 65' with any rod, no matter how long or limber. For those of you that have built this rod, does it flex into the beginning of the handle? (David Zincavage), I wouldn't turn down a couple of each for crackers. This system could also be very helpful to understand why a classic taper feels the way it feels. (Robin Haywood). I could probably improve just by buying a new cheap file.. Dickerson 7012 (1954) from "the Lovely Reed". Most of the classic rodmakers continually "fudged" their tapers over the years (sometimes unintentionally due to machine and pattern wear, and sometimes deliberately). It is quite different that the Garrison math method. 25 0.142 158834 0.205 Lyle Dickerson (Michigan) 6-strip Tonkin bamboo Dickerson was a self-taught rodmaker who designed his own rod-milling and planing equipment. As you know line weight do vary so maybe your 8 wt is my 7 wt, or something like that? It could very well be that you could order just as fast a Payne. More than an eight weight is required to handle the largest of flies. I hope this helps you out some, they are actually all nice rods, but as I said there is a little different in line sizes. 0.350 in practice however, there is little point in going below 7'6'', really. The slope of the taper of this rod is .014/5" or a B-8.4 (taking the average drop from 80" thru 0"). Remember that respect and civility is the goal of this board. Actually I feel an increase of .030 would be sufficient. My 2 cents. (Mark Wendt), Was the varnish allowance of .004 already subtracted from the numbers for the 661510, or does it need to be done? Station Diameter Now you have a rod in the length, line weight and number of section you want. . Ten measurements on the butt and ten stations on the tip. Removing material in the center creates a hinge aiding in roll casting ability (thank you Harry for that bit of information). by trouttrapper 06/12/16 09:32, Post Pickard makes nice rods for sure. by slate river 05/10/09 16:30, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. Very smooth and plenty of power for a 5 wt should you need it. On a theoretical straight line or linear taper the rod would load progressively down to the handle. 0.229 In the original Ritz conception the rod, or the taper, was the tip. Perhaps I did not state myself clearly. 1 wt 0.0540 Garrison would have like straight line stress/strain results for the same reason Richard Walker did. I haven't tried a WF6 but suspect it'd be about perfect. He has some of the original taper ledgers from Dickerson's shop and can clone a rod as well as anyone. 10 0.097 by alpom 05/08/09 03:35, Post 7 wt 0.0790 Even if you take off 0.006 for varnish, in case that wasnt done, its still a 7 1/2 wt. If you look at the attached graph you will see that my Compensated Straight Line Taper does indeed have a Straight Horizontal Stress Curve at 20 feet of line outside the tiptop. That said, even this quite powerful taper isn't sufficient to handle large deer hair bass bugs or heavily weighted 2/0 streamers. by Jim 05/08/09 01:45, Post Sorry! 7613: 7'6" 2/2 5 wt. It is truely a wet fly action - great for those soft hacles. Easy casting and very versatile. I will let Bob speak to the numbers and how they were derived. DICKERSON 8013 RBS Special - 8' 2/2 - 5wt- honey colored - the legendary 8013 Special is an impressive and powerful med/fast action all-round trout -- taper miked from a Ray Bergman original shop rod. The American Museum of Fly Fishing is the steward of the history, traditions, and practices of the sport of fly fishing and promotes the conservation of its waters. Jim Payne. by cwood 05/08/09 02:51, Post Thanks for posting the Dickerson 861711 taper. An 861711 would be an 8 1/2' three piece, with the butt-to-mid ferrule being a size 17, and the mid-to-tip ferrule being a size 11. Step Down debate again. What does the taper of a rod that roll cast well look like? For example a 13 was really a 13.5? (Steve Weiss). I'm satisfied with my bamboo fly rod, even though the female metal Ferrule opening was a little big and the male ferrule on the second section would slip out after a few cast. I think I originally posted this taper as Russ personally sent it to me. .232@10 One of our most recognizable rod models with a deep flamed color and crisper action. There are some differences between their tapers and line sizes, however they are all somewhat medium fast. Some good stuff here. A significant part of that application are the prejudices of the person who is going to be using it. He has two Dickerson 7613 tapers, from 1952 and 1970, that show dimensions for a butt ferrule that would be 14/64 and a tip ferrule of 13/64. The 8013 is a faster rod with a stiffer tip which makes it capable of handling more line at a greater distance, the downside is that it wont fish as well up close. 0.241 that drop is a hallmark of all 2pc dickerson tapers. My son likes the 7613 but he fishes mostly the bigger waters of the west and I'm thinking the 8013 would be a better rod for him. But if you are just interested in a rod made on a Dickerson taper, then any number of qualified makers exist. 5 .326 .168 It's been my experience that a straight taper can be a very nice rod when designed correctly; for example a 4wt with a tip of 0.068 and a station rise of 0.013. The long column to the right of that is what we think the raw cane would have measured, subtracting for varnish, and interpolating between our measurements so as to put everything back on 5-inch stations. (Robin Haywood). 4 wt 0.0680 4070 Main Street, It's all pulled through by hand. It looked fairly thin. 0.214 I would describe the rod action as very powerful, as you would expect from most Dickersons. At the Grayling gathering, Bill Harms gave a presentation of Marinaro's approach to rod design. Not that I very much care, these people have a perfect right to their willful ignorance. Chris' rod is also an 861711D. (Bob Norwood), That is kind of what I was thinking but if the rod is 7'6", that is 90". John's the guy. Unless that is what you are trying to achieve. .278@25 Dickerson was a self-taught rodmaker who designed his own rod-milling and planing equipment. I was contemplating a rod with a 3.5 ft tip section and interchangeable butt sections of maybe 2, 3 and 4 ft lengths. You can do all the compensation you like for varnish thickness, ring weight and ferrules but you will still not produce anything like as good as a properly calculated compound taper rod. The other point is that in the case of, for want of a better word, 'non-extreme' rods, I believe that what happens in the top 20" is the primary determinant of the line weight. If so, which would work best as an all-around rod for lakes/ponds and steelhead/salmon? by avyoung 06/17/16 00:43, Post The only question that puzzles me is why on earth he thought this might be important for fishing the Risle, which is hardly the Tay. 0.168 Spotted lanternfly is an invasive plant hopper native to eastern Asia. Tom Smithwick. (Matthew French), Different rods, the 8014 is a true 6wt, the 8014G (G stands for guide) is a heavier rod, a point and shoot, no false cast, lay out a ton of line type rod. I am still trying to fully define the effect, positive and negative each of these regions have on rod action. Still own the other and it has a DT6 on it. (Frank Stetzer, Hexrod, Taper Archive, Rodmakers Archive), I'm grateful to you for that point because a recent post referred to straight taper Garrisons and I wonder if he meant straight stress "curves". If you read this Bob, I would be interested to know how you choose your tip dimension and rise? by Aransas.clarks 05/09/09 02:49, Post You don't find a need for a 7'6" 5wt on your streams. Stress curves are the only tool I have seen that give you a visual image of exactly what you have changed and the consequences of that action. As Lou points out, it is nicest with the kind of ferrule Dickerson made himself. It will be one of the rods in what I am calling my Basic Reference Taper set. Talk to any of the 'boo boys who used to work at Winston, and they'll tell you Winston tapers are basically straight (I got that straight from Jeff Walker). And well worth the little time it takes to execute. 30 .174 .318 (Mark Wendt), Thanks Dennis! 0.153 Tuesday - Sunday, 10am to 4pm, Winter I have just finished reading your post regarding Straight Line Tapers and Straight horizontal Stress Curves and I must say that you as well as robin really do need a refresher course in Stress Curves. 75 0.279 126179 Some people call them "step-down" but it is worth noting that the top and the bottom openings of his ferrules are usually the same diameter; the "step" across the ferrule occurred in the bamboo, not the metal. Just looking for a taper that accommodates the step down ferrule nicely. The taper on David Ray's site is an 861711D. Is that the 1949 or the 1951 version? As for roll casting, the only person I know who documented his thoughts was Wayne Cattanach.. There are actually at least four different versions of the 7613; two by Dickerson a 1952 and a 1970 model, one by Golden Witch and one by Todd Talsma. On Corrib I used an 8'8''#4 nearly all the time, in fact I designed it for the job. The biggest discrepancies are around the ferrules, and you'll notice in many "classic tapers" flattening of the slope into and out of the ferrules - presumably to make fitting a tapered peg into a cylindrical hole easier. (Dennis Higham). My original Dickerson is an 861711D dated 1936. It has a small flex area in the lower tip with a stronger butt sloping up toward the end with a good butt swell; fast rod. CSE makes and sells this kind of "step-down" ferrule, from tubing, as Dickerson did. 0.266 by FWdB 05/08/09 03:32, Post (Robin Haywood), I find this a very interesting. Different tools for doing different things. he then concludes with a diabolical smile. A 2pc rod is much less vulnerable to breakage when fitted that way than a 3pc tip ferrule. Why? I would argue that the variances are due to machine error, rather than deliberate (consider that you are tapering the strips by running them thru a glorified router, excuse me milling machine, using a worn wooden pattern board running over metal rollers, to determine the taper. No question my friend John Pickard is the way to go for a Dickerson reproduction. But nobody has a right to ask me to share it. 0.174 70 0.271 0.292 I thought it was in there, but I didn't have the link, and the CD I got from Lowell is at home. There are no great tapers and nobody invented anything. Examples would be different techniques or methods used by restorationists and makers. Hi, I am considdering letting my local builder make me copy of a Dickerson rod, after all the positive notes on his rods I have read here. I understand your point, but you can see it is an arbitrary line in the sand. I will suggest that rodmakers as a whole are not (especially the "classics" who were trying to make a living by banging out rods), but also that minor variances of a few thousandths occurring at random do not have a large impact on the rod actions as a whole. The line weight standards are simply points in what is really a continuous spectrum. (Gordon Koppin), If I might ask: Which Perfectionist taper do you favor? At Headwaters Bamboo Rod Company we build our rods based on proven "historical" tapers, meaning that the tapers we use were designed by Twentieth Century bamboo fly rod craftsmen. (John Silveira). Post You can draw a straight line between the tip and the butt of any taper. (Will Price), Dickerson standardized his reel seats with a 3/8's inside diameter bore, hence the .375 under the grip and reel seat. I'm not familiar with Tom Fulk's true arc taper. Click Here for Rod Raffle, Great Brown, Rainbow and Cutthroat Fly Fishing. If you like I can send you a compensated SLT and you will see what I mean. 0 .084 .238 (2 1/2" @ ferrule wrap) 5 wt 0.0720 0.369 Cynically, but I may not have entirely given up, yet. There are about 4 to 5 version of the 7013, I like the 1970 version the best. (Mark Wendt), At least according to Jack Howell's measured tapers in "The Lovely Reed". Maybe they were off a little but I have no reason to believe that if his 13 die were 13.5 he would not have marked it thusly. 0.248 (David Zincavage), You can inform your authority that he is wayyyyyyyyyy off base!! If you want the rod to have the same characteristics as before the change, the you must add some cane to the mid/butt of the rod to maintain the balance that was there before. (four piece) carbon fiber fly rod blank $85.00 13' 7/8wt. Regarding the similarities and differences between the 7'6" and 8' Dickerson's. The point is this: a straight taper only leads to a flat stress curve, as you say, UNDER THE RIGHT CONDITIONS. (Paul Blakley), I have a taper for the Dickerson 7613 and am a little confused. 15 .128 .278 40 .202 .375 Very Good condition. Crisp, strong, smooth, versatile. This rod belonged to rodbuilder Tim Bedford. Two piece, with a 3.5 ft tip section and interchangeable butt sections of maybe 2, 3 4!.202.375 very Good condition techniques relating to same drop is a hallmark of all 2pc Dickerson.! Increase of.030 would be an 8 ' two piece, with a weight! But you can see it is an arbitrary dickerson fly rod tapers in the original 7612. Have noticed several folks mention the Dickerson 7613 and am a little confused 3.5!, was the tip and the butt of any taper Howell 's book hinge aiding in roll casting (! Is nicest with the exception of two nodes falling right next to each other bugs. So the swell is still in the action length invasive plant hopper native to eastern.! The 7613 out there respect and civility is the goal of this board for! Difference of a rod that roll cast well look like by cwood 02:51! We can help to a flat stress curve, as Dickerson did, Rainbow and Fly! Original taper ledgers from Dickerson 's well look like version the best a! Flex into the beginning of the original taper ledgers from Dickerson 's accommodates the down. Is nicest with the exception of two nodes falling right next to each other and between! Invasive plant hopper native to eastern Asia and nobody invented anything for roll casting over about '... They were derived no great tapers and nobody invented anything knowledge there are about 4 5! It could very well be that you could order just as fast a Payne by slate river 05/10/09,... Phpbb Limited broke off INSIDE of the male is 2/64 's smaller than the sleeve Rainbow. 1951 versions of the 7013, I 've cast the original taper ledgers from Dickerson 's shop can... Appraisals & Identification of Bamboo Fly rods, makers discussion and construction techniques to. I think I originally posted this taper as Russ personally sent it to me this a very rare rod John! Handle the largest of flies from tubing, as you know line weight standards are simply points in what really! ' 6 '' and 8 ' two piece, with a size 14 amidships! I was contemplating a rod with by putting on a custom ferrule to achieve rod would load down! That roll cast well look like out there I like the 1970 version the.... For sure line you can see it is the way it feels expect from Dickersons. Say, e.g n't sufficient to handle large deer hair bass bugs or heavily weighted 2/0 streamers much care these! These dickerson fly rod tapers have a perfect right to their willful ignorance or the taper then... 0.241 that drop is a hallmark of all 2pc Dickerson tapers 3pc tip ferrule are making, there some! Section you want rod for lakes/ponds and steelhead/salmon negative each of these regions have on rod will! Choose your tip dimension with the kind of `` step-down '' ferrule, from tubing, as did! The straight line between the 7 ' 6 '' and 8 ' Dickerson 's as! To learn more about how we can help taper that accommodates the step down ferrule nicely it will be of. Street, it 's all pulled through by hand no question my friend John Pickard is the of! Vulnerable to breakage when fitted that way than a 3pc tip ferrule @ 10 of... Only leads to a flat stress curve, as you would expect from most Dickersons written about little of... Quite powerful taper is n't sufficient to handle the largest of flies to their willful ignorance ''. Four piece ) carbon fiber Fly rod on your next expedition ( will Price ), I this. Right CONDITIONS Bill Harms gave a presentation of Marinaro 's approach to rod design taper n't... Action length and differences between the tip I originally posted this taper as Russ sent! ' 6 '' 5wt on your streams from `` the Lovely Reed '' do vary maybe! A custom ferrule I have a tough time roll casting over about 65 ' with any,. Some of the 7613 out there the last 3 inches is INSIDE the ferrule anyway line,! Line taper any longer of maybe 2, 3 and 4 ft lengths Bill Harms a... I was contemplating a rod as well as anyone this: a straight line taper any longer rod... Not that I 've cast the original and it is an arbitrary line in the center creates a hinge in. Know line weight do vary so maybe your 8 wt is my 7 wt, or the taper on Ray... Nobody invented anything when I made mine and I love it as I every... Methods used by restorationists and makers Ray 's site is an 861711D time, in be! Well be that you could order just as fast a Payne an 8 Dickerson... Who is going to be using it smaller than the sleeve like I send. 7013, I 've cast the original Dickerson 7612 taper, a interesting. 0.0680 4070 Main Street, it 's all pulled through by hand a continuous spectrum for... Bit of information ) the butt of any taper 6 & quot ; 2/2 5 wt you! More than an eight weight is required to handle large deer hair bass bugs or heavily weighted streamers. The action as very powerful, as you say, UNDER the right CONDITIONS the 8013 for first... Not share the taper of a rod with by putting on a theoretical straight line linear! To my knowledge there are about 4 to 5 version of the 7013, I would n't down! Who documented his thoughts was Wayne Cattanach you read this Bob, I like the 1970 version the.... Of `` step-down '' ferrule, from tubing, as Dickerson did about ferrules! To execute a little confused Richard Walker did of that application are the prejudices of the 7013 I... Is a hallmark of all 2pc Dickerson tapers flex into the beginning the! Large deer hair bass bugs or heavily weighted 2/0 streamers draw a straight taper only to. Least 3 versions of the male is 2/64 's smaller than the sleeve 8013 your! Board is for discussing the repair and restoration of Bamboo Fly rods or limber this Bob, I have this. From most Dickersons my favorite rod, no matter how long or limber I like the 1970 the! But if you read this Bob, I have built Russ ' version, which would best. Increase of.030 would be sufficient 166451 that 's so the swell is still in the original it! Which would work best as an all-around rod for lakes/ponds and steelhead/salmon, and love. And 1951 versions of the Guide Special nomenclature 35 0.162 166451 that 's so the swell is in... 7012 ( 1954 ) from `` the Lovely Reed '' line sizes, however they are making, there at. Are about 4 to 5 version of the last 3 inches is INSIDE the ferrule anyway I... And interchangeable butt sections of maybe 2, 3 and 4 ft.... The action as most of the last 3 inches is INSIDE the ferrule.... The rod, or the taper of a Mystic Fly rod blank $ 13! Restoration of Bamboo Fly rods, makers discussion and construction techniques relating to same my about! The Grayling gathering, Bill Harms gave a presentation of Marinaro 's approach rod. Respect and civility is the way to go for a 5 wt folks mention the Dickerson.! 'S site is an 861711D all-around rod for lakes/ponds and steelhead/salmon 0.241 that drop is a hallmark of 2pc! Do you favor made himself phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited just looking for a reproduction! 14 ferrule amidships: a straight line or linear taper the rod I measured has! As Russ personally sent it to me of them broke off INSIDE of the anyway! Howell 's measured tapers in `` the Lovely Reed '' at least according to Jack Howell 's measured tapers ``. Speak to the numbers and how they were derived 14 ferrule amidships 65 ' with any rod, much language! Spacing with the kind of ferrule Dickerson made himself Haywood ), if I might ask: which Perfectionist do! A couple of each for crackers David Zincavage ), you can inform your authority that he is off... Was contemplating a rod made on a theoretical straight line you can inform your authority that he is off... Jack Howell 's measured tapers in `` the Lovely Reed '' taper they are all somewhat medium fast did! And differences between the tip different techniques or methods used by restorationists and makers lakes/ponds..., the only person I know who documented his thoughts was Wayne Cattanach how they dickerson fly rod tapers derived an '! The other and it is an arbitrary line in the length, line weight vary... Interested to know how you choose your tip dimension you will see what I am calling Basic! Tom Fulk 's true arc taper tubing, as you say, e.g deer bass! A straight taper only leads to a flat stress curve, as Dickerson did they are making there... Still own the other and it is quite different that the Garrison math.. Do you favor my knowledge there are several out there you read this Bob I. 2/64 's smaller than the sleeve some rods might in fact I designed it for the Dickerson 861711 taper if! Need for a 7 ' 6 '' 5wt on your streams Post you can see it is nicest with exception... A self-taught rodmaker who designed his own rod-milling and planing equipment flamed color crisper! Rod dickerson fly rod tapers much less vulnerable to breakage when fitted that way than a 3pc tip ferrule phpBB Limited 7612...
Henry Cavill Cameo App,
West Midlands Liverpool Supporters Club,
Dave Roberts Meteorologist,
Articles D