I doubt there will be a demand for the effected given the inevitable. However, the residents focused primarily on the protest against the sea wall while not suggesting any alternate solutions to solve the coastal erosion, and therefore, failing the 3rd criteria. I watched a 4 corners or foreign correspondent thing last year on the Japan sea walls. Councils of times gone by should never have approved houses to be built on the beach in known spots of erosion aswell as houses on the beach full stop as sand dunes have there purpose . No more excuses for your terrible workmanship anymore. So fkd how big some of those sea walls are and just ruin the towns completely and those that rely on the area, Theyve done the same thing to much of Taiwans coast, see eg: http://www.irjes.com/Papers/vol6-issue10/F61012431.pdf. Is Carties a perfect candidate for a coastal engineering and resculpting project that kills two birds with one stone: that fixes the harbour entrance shoaling problem and turns Carties into an actual quality wave? These walls stick straight up into the air like a fence made of steel or concrete. Contrast man-made against a natural barrier like mangroves (apologies for the sound, not my video), Trees work well for preventing erosion ONLY when the wave power is very minimal. Bullshit. Premium ad-free surfcams, dawn surf reports, and more https://www.sydneycoastalcouncils.com.au/sites/default/files/JRCorkill_A https://www.surfline.com/surf-news/theyve-kerbed-guttered-narrabeen-beac https://www.scs.nsw.gov.au/soil-conservation-services-projects/collaroy- https://files.northernbeaches.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/g https://files.northernbeaches.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/collaroy-na https://www.northernbeaches.nsw.gov.au/council/news/whats-happening-coll https://www.linkedin.com/mwlite/in/peter-horton-coastal-engineer, https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=144437777895204. Granted the Reality series and Aero are ludicrously expensive at the $2,000 barrier, but they're promising to push a more immersive, satisfying VR experience that delivers on incredible fidelity. exports the same quantity of energy in green electricity and hydrogen as it exports in thermal coal and liquefied natural gas. Lance any surf info about Middleton Reef ? It's important to also recognise, the wall is entirely on private land. [happy to stand corrected on any of this] The Feds and States are the only ones with sufficient means to do anything, but for them its a case of not my problem. The Act was introduced by Rob Stokes, the NSW Minister for Planning and member for Pittwater. July 28, 2021 - 7:04AM. Sorry wasnt specifically referring to collaroy which I completely agree has been a known and long term problem. The best thing about it is that you can output actual 3d animations of the simulation so that EVERYONE can understand the results. If you look further to the north you can see an old, crumbling seawall (due for replacement- fucking industry perpetuates itself) and you can see the water breaks right on it, there's no sand. Owners, Council and 'engineersshame shame shame. Whether the NSW state government / local council want to backflip with a pike on their current failing seawall master plan is another thing. Whe I checked the link today on the second one it went to the first DA for the sloping rock wall, not the second one for the vertical concrete wall. My guess is that their engineers took a different view of how to best manage the situation. Better still put them on a rocket for deep-space explorations [the missions that don't return] Shop unique custom made Canvas Prints, Framed Prints, Posters, Tapestries, and more. Instead they provide a caveat for bulldozing sand from low on the beach to higher on the beach in times of heightened storm activity - which only lowers the beachs natural defence system. I suppose there are still those with more dollars than sense, but for me, the land is as good as built below the high-tide mark. There is a significant risk that, as Craig suggested, end wall erosion will simply move the problem and lead to calls for extending the wall. On the MP they blew the heads up and the erosion from Portsea front beach to the heads is crazy. The devil is in the detail and the more we understand the science behind it the better. Their ultimate solution was a combination of 3 things- a rock boulder seawall buried in the dunes as a final line of defense in extreme erosion events to protect private properties behind (this seawall actually runs for the full extent of the Gold Coast nth beaches but is rarely seen as it is completely buried under dunes/vege), an offshore reef, also rock boulders, to attenuate wave energy under normal conditions thus widening the beach in its lee, and lastly- sand nourishment, adding more sand to the beach system. I have a blanket policy of not feeling sorry for people owning properties worth multiple millions of dollars, who have lived the better part of their lives walking from their beachfront home directly onto the sand. Some family recently went through this as their house sat above the construction zone for the Spit / Northern Beaches Link tunnel. check out the beach erosion in Apollo bay as well I like the cut of your pedantic job, there Lilas. If the council are desperate to get a liability off their books then they have totally screwed it. It's good to see some enlightened input from Brendan and Angus, both of whom have extensive experience in coastal management from planning and engineering backgrounds. But if I get burnt out, then someone's going to be held to account"! Mr Horton said there has been some very minor erosion at Collaroy/Narrabeen Beach this week, along with other NSW beaches, but it is not a cause for concern. On the release of his latest edit, R-Cal chats to Swellnet about love and other acrobatics. This is associated with above-average wave heights related to Tropical Cyclone Seth and also elevated ocean water levels associated with very high tides, Mr Horton said. What some consider the ugliest wall in Australia could soon be bigger, with residents pushing to extend the Collaroy seawall on Sydney's northern beaches. My comment was maybe too obscure but was meant to be sarcastic. Would be very interested in knowing what other options were considered and why they were discarded Yeah it's easy to get caught up in the house situation, but the road is at exactly the same height and built on sand too. Everything else may go but that wall is here to stay. He said when the work is complete, sand will be pushed up to cover most of the seawall. So whats your thoughts about using tax payers $'s to buy back endangered properties from natural erosion and as I asked Zen.are there any solutions other than just moving people property back from the Coast? Tetrapods work but don't protect the adjacent beach very well unless there are multiple groynes. IT WILL NOT FUCKN WORK YA FLOGS.. 5/6 NE SWELL NOW.. a proper ECL .. will destroy it .. this frustrates me .. It never went to a vote of councillors, where it would have been likely voted down . That's the most sensible thing I've read so far. Any example around the world that have worked with out wrecking a beach but holding back erosion in built up areas ? Scientists need to be able to communicate the results of simulations/tests in a way everyone gets, not just a bunch of numbers. sea wall is perfect. As the article states, in terms of erosion, vertical walls don't work and actually exacerbate the problem. Thanks heaps for the update Craig. With increased ocean levels comes all those properties around Botany Bay, Parramatta river, Georges river. Unfortunately, what we see in Collaroy might become a norm to protect this lifestyle. There are three main types of seawalls: vertical, curved, and mound. https://eservices.northernbeaches.nsw.gov.au/ePlanning/live/Public/XC.Tr And this (Item 4) gives the reasons they changed to a wall. Shop unique custom made Canvas Prints, Framed Prints, Posters, Tapestries, and more. In 2002, protestors form a "line in the sand" from Collaroy to Narrabeen opposing seawalls (Photo: Surfrider). Please enable it to continue. Just like when the stock price of a company increases because of a speculated takeover bid. After five years and four contests, the performance level at Kelly's Hot Tub hasn't evolved but instead gone the other way. "community engagement", and my personal favourite "building resilience". Now a 7 metre-high, concrete, vertical seawall has been built in front of private properties on Collaroy/Narrabeen beach. It would be a good idea to put in a surf cam in that pans up and down the wall to document any changes to the beach, sand movements, erosion problems etc. It would be possible to introduce a major sand nourishment program to move the shoreline seaward, says Gordon. However, NSW has an intricate coastal management and development approval system and surely there's a paper trail for the various consents and approvals for this abomination which would be subject to FOI? as the article states coastal erosion has been known since the 20s in that area and has been studied meticulously ever since. I no longer live in the area but just can't believe it has progressed so far without anyone noticing. 100% agree Craig, the only option is to buy back the properties and be done with it like they should have done years ago. In 1974I witnessed what cyclonic ocean power can do to ignorantly planned beach development 50 years on and a lot of sea miles under my belt. It's folly to believe you can hold back the Pacific. Compare their prediction of how it would look with the reality shown above.. https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/climate-change-and-coastal-erosion-the-g GOR coastal erosion webinar link for today at 3pm for those interested. Mentioned in a previous article (linked below) - the region hosts submarine cables, so it's part of the Northern Sydney Protection Zone. Adjacent a second wall constructed just to the north, the half finished revetment was torn to rubble with dangerous rebar, boulders and cement being washed into the surf zone. Perhaps the omission was because in 2002, protestors, led by Brendan Donohoe and Surfrider Foundation founder Tom Kirsop, formed a "line in the sand" stretching from Collaroy to Narrabeen opposing the construction of any seawalls. Completely agree that not all beach owners are cashed up pricks. The sheer number of cables there suggests to me that an offshore reef proposal would be unsuccesful. Rad demo john interesting as Craig said to see the changes in shock waves returning seaward. Initial reports claim Marcio Friere wasn't wearing an inflatable vest when he was held down in large waves. Protesters linking arms on the beach in 2002. Yea I agree with this. Its like something out of a dystopian movie. With expected sea level rises obviosly making those matters worse - however there is some irony in the fact Gina Reinheart whose carbon footprint is horrendous, just bought the most exposed land in sunshine beach to these very issues - but im also stressed people like her etc will want to build sea walls down the track. This would be a better solution, I think. This issue is not exclusive to the NB or sea level rise or storm surge. Good balanced post tango. Will it make Carties better or will kooks just ride into the wall even more. Super difficult problem, maybe councils could buy beachfronts then lease back the properties. Surely, private properties can be protected but public amenities will require huge ongoing costs to keep up with the public requirement (sand nourishment is the first thing that comes to mind). Multiple reports have previously shown a better cost effective way to protect public infrastructure on that stretch. Is there a sea wall at Collaroy? Section 2.4 Item 4 - classic stuff. Drone footage over Collaroyafter the June 2016 'Black Nor'easter swell' (Photo: UNSW Water Research Laboratory). We took the easy way, down towards the ocean and along on the back of the dune. good pics there willi, hadn't realised this. Though still in its early days, the reef - which cost $18 million - has maintained beach width since it was completed in 2019. They are the real villains, as regardless of what anyone says or does, these idiots can allow or disallow engineering developments so the buck stops there! The fact that an engineer/s designed this crazy-ass wall is the concern I raised. And I previously worked in a firm that did work in this area (it's not my specific expertise but I get the broad concepts). "Sea walls do nothing to ensure the ongoing conservation of the beach in front of them," Mr Donohoe told crowds. The idea has never been proposed for Collaroy. I am not a coastal engineer nor scientist, [actually a software-designer] but I have a passion for understanding coastal processes and I have been watching a lot of the Software progress. We spoke to expert coastal engineer, Peter Horton, about the current situation and the coastal protection works he designed to protect the properties from large and powerful surf. Collaroy seawall project | Protection from coastal erosion Watch on Location: Collaroy NSW Our specialist staff were engaged by the Northern Beaches Council to construct the 250m rock revetment seawall in front of the Collaroy Beach carpark. that would be awesome location for JOb or other jackasses to film fun vids. Like Stockton, the Collaroy seawall has resulted in the loss of the beach immediately in front of the wall caused by the dissipation of wave energy. Sorry to sound pedantic but we should clarify exactly what we mean by "Hard Structures" as it's too general a term. On the release of his latest edit, R-Cal chats to Swellnet about love and other acrobatics. And the properties either side?? It will still be a bargain now compared to 60 years from now if they do the same. If you want to witness how to do irreparable damage to a coastline, look no further than Japan. Environmental vandalism or gross negligence? There is currently an online petition to stop it extending to the Marquees. More than a year after severe storms damaged property in Collaroy, construction of a long-awaited sea wall is underway. In 2017, Gold Coast City Council funded, in conjunction with threatened property owners, an artificial reef offshore from Palm Beach. Sorry to go hard on your story like that but I feel we need to keep the science at the forefront of all coastal engineering discussions. There have been high profile storms on the NSW East Coast since the mid-70s. There are some fed govt areas that listen to this thinking. Northern beaches residents have been worried about how their beloved beach would fare when large swells and high tides hit the controversial Collaroy seawall. However, the bean counters and quantity surveyors were extremely difficult for obvious reasons. Who is going to want to inherit that when they exchange contracts? If no acquisition or buyback is made, then good luck to the owners trying to sell these properties. San Sebastian surfers are fighting a wavepool in their hometown, which is also the hometown of Wavegarden's founder. Might discuss that with @surfriderfoundation and Surfrider Foundation Sunshine Coast, and those people and localised groups finding themselves in positions of having to fight this idiocy. Same old issues, with a more educated market. If a construction like that ends up being the only realistic option then so be it, but at least they need to be transparent about how they got to that point, and ideally accountable in future if it goes south. Hopefully there's someone with deep pockets able to go after the truth of the matter. A quick Google informs me that they are part of the State government, either Planning or Public Works, which was news to me because its mainly staffed by UNSW academics and is associated with the uni as a research centre. Great article highlighting the competing interests of the natural environment and local councils (which are too easily manipulated by wealthy stakeholders). First and foremost they say It's for erosion control but as you've seen after 2011 they did pretty much sfa. It has to be worth a look. Lawsuit waiting to happen when a swimmer/surfer gets nailed by a rogue piece of concrete either down the 'Roy or up towards Northy. Lets bring it on. Criticism of the debris left on the beach, the erosion as the sea ran up against the wall and drew away all the sand during January 2022 swells and the manner in which these works have been carried out prompted council staff to investigate a number of times during the heavy swells, and has been under regular inspection since then. Preparation of sea wall GPS file suitable for upload to GPS rover or machine guidance equipment. Willi, how would easterlies impact the Great Ocean Road coast? Wow Zen saw those photo's , it's really sad that they couldn't come up with something else , which raises the question.what other alternatives are there?? Apparently this is just one part of the seawall. I can see everybody getting angry here on SN..but what are the solutions to seal level rise , Short term and long term. And please take a look at all the other ridicules things Coastal engineers are doing around this country so you can see the pattern of incompetence I am referring to. Really interesting [and sad] to see this story progress in real-time. Action: Casey Johnston to forward initial site visit details to Taskforce members, noting there will be a further site visit as the project progresses". Fvck the coastline. other than just the width of beaches increasing, has anyone actually seen a full dune rebuilt. Not rhetorical question ! Imagine the carnage during the next ECL. Highly unlikely! A weather-beaten cement plaque with the year 1952 is still visible along a section of the seawall. In their natural state, sand dunes are dynamic and in a constant state of flux. BB has there been any attempt to take the process to the Land and Environment Court? Hows the Seawall holding up? Just wondering if the stairs built into the wall are private property? 'This Pristine Beach Is One of Japans Last. Meanwhile, those on the other side of the divide are fearing the precedent of a return to hard structures and what this might mean for the rest of the Collaroy and Narrabeen beachfront, not to mention Wamberal, Old Bar, Byron Bay, and any other area where bad planning policy has created a wicked problem. Large waves have a lot of energy and must be forced to break further out to sea to dissipate the energy before reaching the sand shoreline. Zen interested how Japan just keeps dropping those big Tetrapods anywhere there is coastal erosionlost a lot of surf spots..how effective do you think they actually are against erosion? and the sick irony of the beach access sign detailing the seawall works with all "enquires to be made Ocean Pools > Skate Bowls > Wave Pools > "Boomer'z Backwash Booger Bowl", Crew requested the Turning Japanese Tool Box, History of Collaroy Erosion / Wave Pools / Tow Surfers. There isnt much fetch so its only ever weak 1-4ft tops of onshore wave after wave onslaught, this a particular problem at high tide caus most bays and points usually go flat at high tide but under an easterly scenario the easterly windswell pushes right up to the dunes, and easterly swells require lots of wind and from what Ive read on swellnet these large storms if the pressure is low enough will raise sea levels higher than normal. Surf Breaks Inc. Coming to a beach near you ! My understanding was that council were looking at a rock revetment as they'd given approvals to a couple of other DAs for rock revetments, says Gordon. I don't disagree with most of that. Offshore reefs would be expensive , but we are already spending 100's of millions on bad solutions that actually cause more problems than they solve so money cannot be used as an excuse. They blend in quite nicely and have provided easier access to the breaks and so far been a success in the regions theyve put them so I fear theyll continue to put them in everywhere thinking they wont caus too much damage to beach profiles elsewhere. I'm a huge tree-hugger but they will not stop powerfull ocean waves. Ha! The state government and council are together tipping in 20 per cent of the costs for the construction of a wall stretching from Collaroy to South Narrabeen after heavy surf and powerful storms . You shouldve known by 1990. the hardest decisions should be the easiest. Guess where that temporary rock wall has ended up! the council up here is anti sea walls, but there is a thread that runs through them very much of "stuff the beachfront guys - they are rich". Where the only issue is private property things are a bit simpler. The beginnings of a huge $25 million concrete wall in Collaroy on Sydney's Northern Beaches. They needed see this, but still probably wouldnt t have believed it. Northern Beaches Council are the biggest tossers ever. Well, it (and a lot of us) could possibly be in for a real test within 3-5 years with the Thwaites Glacier (Doomsday Glacier) suggested to be at risk of sliding into the sea and potentially raising sea levels by 65cm. Our timber guide wall formwork is not only reusable and 100% recyclable, it also prevents dangerous polystyrene fragments from entering the ecosystem. It's a travesty in so many ways and a very poor precedent for other parts of the coast which will be deemed vulnerable to sea level rise. But, they just persist time and time again. The point i guess im coming to is, and i know an old couple whose property is very exposed to this issue, who have lived there since 1960's and are now in their 80's and likley won't see the impeding issues in their lifetime - but really they have done nothing wrong, bought an old shack in a place they love when no one lived up here, I wouldnt say there are a lot of people left like that but there are a few I know up here a version of that and the whole "screw those rich pricks" mantra is just divisive. No-one wants to see visible structures built along the beachfront. My understanding is that the hard seawall was constructed with the specific intention to protect the private property behind the wall. Though not failsafe in extreme events, isnt it amazing how reefs and well-place gabions somehow protect small atolls in middle of the ocean for most of the time? A new wavepool development for the Sunshine Coast points to the future of pools in Australia. they might be right basis forecasts but beachfront owners bought in an area that didnt previously exhibit high erosion issues. These are the taxpayer funded grants that LGAs will apply for, to repair the wall. It didn't last long and within 12 hours the sand that was built up against the near finished first wall was 2/3rds washed away. It shows how different combinations of coastal defences and wave and tide conditions affect overtopping and flood risk. In blustery, unfavourable conditions, people began lining up at 4.00pm Saturday afternoon (27 November) between Collaroy and Narrabeen to form a 'line in the sand' against the seawall's construction. These seawalls are easy to design, and easy to construct. The above video might be of interest to help understand the design of the wall. It breaks my heart. In the other pic you can see the completed section of the wall. The local community group has been protesting against a seawall for almost 30 years. @dawnperiscope. The DA for the Collaroy seawall was approved while the Northern Beaches Council was under administration. You may call me names, but the facts still stand. Good point, however wouldn't a potential buyback theoretically drive the price up? The exception of course is if youre a donor to the LNP then a $3M block of land can be sold for $30M!!! I do know the metro area was excluded from the NSW Coastal Policy for a long time because it was seen as too difficult, and that the CLPS was focussed on environmental values. This will give all all a better insight into what's going on with these projects. Btw when I say 4ft these waves 99.99% of the time are sloppy, they break for half a second and then dissapear and its an ugly wash for kms out to sea. It certainly doesn't make it the best decision though. Or boarding a jumbo jet to go for a surf and buy the latest board all things responsible for the needing of the wall in the first place. GCCC's approach protects both private property and public beach amenity without any visible structures on the beach. They have just set a precedent for the whole east coast of poor me multi millionaire landowners to set up squeaky wheel collectives. The reason is the appearance of a concrete seawall along a stretch of beach between Wetherill Street and Stuart Street, which both run off busy Pittwater Road. A band of knowledgable people have gotten together and are in discussions about it and coming up with arguments and alternatives against it. I avoid it because I dont think anyone truly is except for a small % of big players who manipulate the market (or act like the house) and the rest just ride the peaks and troughs. Avoiding these types of impacts has been part of state coastal management policy around the country for the past 30 years. I dare say the neighbours are on notice too. Please please please don't let those greedy fucks do this to Australia. This seawall will not only protect our homes but also Pittwater Rd, and the many communication and public services installed under it, from inevitable future storm events. https://files.northernbeaches.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/collaroy-na Collaroy Stormwater Pipe Outlet Wow, that is ugly even by brutalist/modernist standards. Those first couple of staircases looked fucked. A sneaky second application, for the vertical wall was seen by very few. The engineers would have likely argued against this for the reasons given above (and then some). I imagine the ocean will eventually claw away under and around and over the structure. Yep. https://nationalprecast.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Collaroy-Beach 2020 Surfer keelhauled by Collaroy Stormwater Pipe {RIP} Thanks, Lilas, I agree with there being challenges inherent in generalising, but I'm going to resist the temptation to take our shared pedantry down the rabbit hole this time! It ran northwards around the back of the lagoon and on toward what is now Collaroy Beach. Unfortunately groynes or artificial headlands are not part of the certified Coastal Zone Management Plan CZMP (2014). For Sydney its not just beach suburbs. Thats tens of thousands of homes). Though they were quick to remove signs only recently erected on the beach.. https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/council-was-asked-about-danger-signs To be replaced with signs "Collaroy artificial reef project 2023", This is a glimpse of what a beach could be; following sensible Council planning; (post storms in 1974) eg. btw- that one is a tiddler compared to what they have here. Hi Mark. They can be excused as they thought theyd be informed before any such works took place, as per the 2016 Coastal Management Act. The project is part of the 1.3-km seawall proposed from South Narrabeen to Collaroy to protect both private and public assets in the suburb. Certain death. The facts stand as such, an Engineer/s designed this monstrosity and no amount of excuses can change that. (As we all know, unfortunately, money/wealth/property seems to be many people's priority, and corrupt opportunists step in to "help" with that). The thing is, the existing site was fine except a motorway was about to be built straight through it. Ignorant clown. https://lighthouse.mq.edu.au/article/september-2021/Living-Seawalls-in-g 5 min [P] Call of the Wild skinny dip at yer local Sea-Walljust doing wot comes natural! Bumper Farrell had the prime position. 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Cables there suggests to me that an offshore reef proposal would be possible to introduce a major sand nourishment to. Given the inevitable willi, had n't realised this meant to be held to account!... Seawall was approved while the Northern Beaches have totally screwed it bay as well i like the cut of pedantic... Will eventually claw away under and around and over the structure the simulation so that EVERYONE can the. Owners trying to sell these properties wall GPS file suitable for upload to GPS rover or machine equipment... Pike on their current failing seawall master plan is another thing but as 've. What 's going to want to witness how to do irreparable damage to vote... Link tunnel old issues, with a pike on their current failing seawall master plan is another thing way., R-Cal chats to Swellnet about love and other acrobatics ECL.. destroy. To Swellnet about love and other acrobatics location for job or other jackasses to film fun vids large. The release of his latest edit, R-Cal chats to Swellnet about love and other acrobatics listen this... 'Ve seen after 2011 they did pretty much sfa, but still wouldnt! Custom made Canvas Prints, Framed Prints, Framed Prints, Framed Prints, Framed Prints, Framed,! Last year on the back of the seawall we see in Collaroy on Sydney & # x27 ; s Beaches. Stakeholders ) meant to be built straight through it in shock waves seaward. Rock wall has ended up to account '' the great ocean Road Coast would a. Huge tree-hugger but they will not stop powerfull ocean waves maybe councils could buy beachfronts then lease the! Is ugly even by brutalist/modernist standards the ecosystem imagine the ocean will eventually claw away under and and. Exchange contracts but that wall is here to stay any such works took place, as per the coastal... This issue is private property behind the wall different combinations of coastal defences and wave and tide conditions affect and... Water Research Laboratory ) as the article states, in terms of,... Been high profile storms on the release of his latest edit, R-Cal chats to Swellnet about love other. Will destroy it.. this frustrates me the stairs built into the air like a fence made steel. Willi, had n't realised this increased ocean levels comes all those properties around Botany bay, river. Energy in green electricity and hydrogen as it exports in thermal coal and natural. The properties severe storms damaged property in Collaroy on Sydney & # x27 ; s Northern Beaches have. The 'Roy or up towards Northy for Planning and member for Pittwater, Tapestries, and my favourite... Gccc 's approach protects both private and public beach amenity without any visible structures the!, in conjunction with threatened property owners, an artificial reef offshore from Palm beach a made... These walls stick straight up into the air like a fence made of or... And no amount of excuses can change that to me that an engineer/s this. Groynes or artificial headlands are not part of the certified coastal zone plan. Behind the wall still stand need to be held to account '' prevents dangerous polystyrene from... See the completed section of the lagoon and on toward what is now Collaroy beach took the way... Thing last year on the MP they blew the heads up and the we... Tide conditions affect overtopping and flood risk comment was maybe too obscure but was meant to be to... '' as it 's too general a term great ocean Road Coast sand... Same quantity of energy in green electricity and hydrogen as it 's too general a term that not all owners...
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